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So, what Israel is admitting here, is that they could individually pinpoint and target Hamas but instead carpet bombed Palestine into genocide.
supply chain attacks are dirty tactics too, they have no idea who is holding 3000 pagers when detonation.
For smartphones they actually could, they could tie the lipo pack serial number to the imei and work everything out from there.
Then make sure it’s been unlocked via biometrics within a second or so.
It’s very rare that someone else holds a phone to be unlocked for you, though it does happen, still the closest to a targeted kill.
You would have to guarantee those phones would eventually end up in the right person’s hands.
Otherwise if you sabotage 100 phones and only 30 go to your targets, even if you only detonate those 30 there are now 70 phones out there randomly floating around with enough explosives to kill some random person.
Yeah, and this is assuming that even the ones with your target isn’t hidden in a box under his kid’s bed when it goes off.
I use a code to unlock. Biometrics can be unlocked while unconscious or restrained. Fuck that.
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since English isn’t something you’re comfortable reading
I’m having a hard time figuring out what they said that merited this level of hostility. They weren’t even arguing with you!?
They’re just another incoherent zio cultist.
That’s great, dehumanize people so you can shirk your ethics and treat them as lesser.
Where have I seen this move before 🤔🤔🤔🤔
You act like such a Zionist, it’s hilarious to watch you speak yourself into a corner.
They were using pagers and walkie talkies to evade the cellphone tracking that the Israelis were already doing.
They wouldn’t have taken the cell phones.
But this only works if you know the identity of every member of the organization, which is impossible, again making this a terror campaign and not a targeted attack. And you have to detonate them all at once or people will throw away the devices. You can’t wait for the 100,00 people who belong to the organization to have just unlocked their devices all at once.
No, but you can mark which pager numbers are in combatant possession and which ones are with civvies.
Wtf? You’re killing everybody, you’re killing the most influential leaders you know about.
This was stupid, and will make Israel’s life harder but Bibi is too narcissistic to accept that.
This is also Mossad trying to wipe off O7 attacks by showering in blood, which is just stupid.
Nothing about this makes sense as an adult.
I’m not sire what you’re replying to. My comment was that using smart phones wouldn’t be effective in the way you mentioned. Relying on people 100,000 people that belong to Hezbollah to unlock their phones all at the same time to verify that’s who is holding the device. There is no possible way to make an attack like this targeted. It would always result in a large percentage of innocent casualties no matter what you do. The only use for it is a terrorist attack, which is what this was.
They literally knew about the attack before it happened. Genocide was always the primary goal.
Israel is obviously behind the attacks but has not taken responsibility for them yet. So no, they’re not admitting anything.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
All the rest is gaslighting so that you’d not be completely sure that that’s what they are saying, thus not so confident in yourself. Another kind of attacking other’s morale.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
Yes. And what zionists want to do is terrorism, genocide, etc.
Oh, not just the zionists… that entire zone is rife with religious violence.
The real problem is religion 🤷
Is it? There are plenty of Jews and plenty of Muslims who are not involved in this and see it as wrong. Plus, that’s such a broad statement as to be meaningless. We could equally say government is the problem, but there aren’t many advocating for anarchy. Or people are the problem. I’d be more inclined to say tribalism is the problem, the very foundation of an “us” vs. “them” mentality. Sometimes assholes pick a fight and call it religious. There’s a strong case to be made that war has become much more brutal and far reaching since the Napoleonic wars and the rise of the nation-state. I mean, we can blame religion … that certainly erases the need to look within ourselves and ask why humans do this to each other.
It’s a bit like pretending Nazism was a German problem and pretending like the same dark forces don’t exist now and in many people everywhere.
There are definitely some religious dickheads, but there are dickheads of all stripes.
If religion is so vile, how do we hold in tension the fact that religious people are often behind the most charity towards the marginalised and disempowered? Atheists talk a good game, but rarely leave their armchairs to do anything positive. Religion can become a tribal marker, but it also is one of the main forces working against tribalism.
This is the key thing here. People can whine about this attack, but this was targeted and it worked with low collateral damage, which also makes it legal (as in not a war crime).
The problem is everything else that Israel is doing since Oct 7, causing 1/3 of the Palestinian casualties to be children.
The very nature of a supply chain sabotage like this is indiscriminate.
Customary international humanitarian lawprohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction.
It’s low collateral damage the same way a suicide bomber is. So, I guess, your IDF-brained take is suicide bombers are low casualty and precise.
It’s a low collateral attack when you see civilians as enemies and want literally all of them dead.
Oh look, terrorism.
No , see when THEY do it, it is terrorism; when WE do it ……….
This flippant accusation misses the grander issue.
If Israel is capable of precisely targeting enemy military like this, then why are there 35k dead in Gaza?
It’s a good point
But the accusation isn’t flippant. That’s exactly what this is.
If the beepers and radios were targeted at Hezbollah militia members, then it isn’t terrorism.
If the equipment was sold in regular retail channels meant for the general Lebanese population, then it is terrorism.
We don’t know enough to make that call 100%, but early analysis is strongly suggesting it was targeted.
To call it terrorism at this point is flippant and unsupported, and draws attention away from and fails to highlight their larger crime of genocide.
It is absolutely terrorism. When the pagers went off most of the people hit by them were in plain clothes, including a child, people were just seeing other randomly exploding and are adding strain to hospitals. This is a terrorist attack.
Yes, and when we bombed Germany in WW2 we killed hundreds of children. War is bad. Terrorism is bad. But they are different things.
Genocide =/= war. Stop trying to justify genocidal terrorism on the basis of some imaginary “war”.
There is a difference between the actions in Gaza and the actions in Lebanon.
It is absolutely terrorism
Too early to tell, but likely not
most of the people hit by them were in plain clothes
oh good, if i find myself an active combatant in a war-zone i should just chuck on a t-shirt.
including a child
Regrettable but civilian casualties in a war-zone are inevitable
people were just seeing other (presumably you meant to put “people” here) randomly exploding
they weren’t randoms, at the moment it seems they were Hezbollah
and are adding strain to hospitals
That’ll happen when a large number of combatants are taken out at once
I think the point was that, for the people around, this was undistinguishable from suicide bombers, which are usually considered as terrorists. Terrorism is meant to inspire terror and insecurity. This did exactly that.
Human Rights Watch called it unlawful:
Customary international humanitarian lawprohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction.
There is no “war-zone”. There are no “combatants”.
There’s just genocidal terrorists murdering civilians in several different states.
Hezbollah have been firing rockets into israel for months, it absolutely is a warzone
Is it precise? From the pager terror attacks only 9 or killed, maybe 2 of them “fighters”, at least 1 child, 2700+ wounded including medical staff and other innocent people. That’s not exactly precise in my books.
I mean you are fundamentally making an argument against war. Which I agree with. When waging war someone innocent is always going to get caught in the crossfire, which is one of the many reasons war is bad.
But to call all acts of war terrorism, and all terrorism an act of war, is to pretend words don’t have meanings.
No, I’m not calling all acts of war terrorism, or all terrorism acts of war. For example, Ukranian artillery striking Russian troops in a trench most certainly an act of war, and not terrorism. Detonation explosives attached to people who aren’t aware, who are potentially innocent, potentially in crowded locations, in hospitals, or schools, isn’t an act of war, and is text book terrorism.
Genocide =/= war.
If this was the other way around, we’d have global outrage, days of mourning and piles of new weapons for Israel right now. We’d be speaking about one of the worst terrorist attacks in history.
Bingo.
This was a stupid decision by Israel. They have given the green light to mass attacks through consumer products. Can they really afford to protect all their imported products (electronics, food, water, etc) from every type of attack?
They don’t have to, the supply chain is friendlier to them than to Lebanese.
The supply chain goes from the source to the consumer. It doesn’t have to be and elaborate and expensive operation to have an effect. Several unrelated individuals poke 1 or 2 tiny holes into some fruits and vegetables during their weekly grocery shopping. Once people start to notice there will be panic about food security. Most people won’t care but enough will that it will cost grocery stores money in unsellable products and increased vigilance. Prices go up. If you can’t trust your fellow human to not sneeze at the buffet table, how are you going to trust your neighbour/worker who lost x relatives to not tamper with your ice cream in the unlocked fridge at the store.
Drones randomly dropping anthrax are simpler.
Where would they get the anthrax and a drone capable of spreading it without hurting the user. My example cost nothing, anyone can do it and the it’s almost impossible to get caught.
Actually incredibly easy to catch someone doing it in a first world country.
Mass surveillence is already here. By the third case of such death the police would already be pulling CCTV tapes.
Someone has a pin or thumb tack held between there fingers. They touch 10 green apples but only pierce 3. How are you going to determine this person did that from the hundreds of customers who were at that spot during one day? How many hours of videos are being kept? How many cameras do you need? How much will this cost? What if this was done at the farm? Or truck or distribution center?
There is no intelligence behind genocide.
Five years ago, if you had asked me if Israel would be committing terrorist attacks across Palestine, Lebanon and beyond, I would have said absolutely not.
I would have been wrong, even back then, but jesus fucking christ, what an absolute shambles.
How my government supports this state-sponsored terrorism is beyond me.
Zios have been using terrorism for 75+ years with full imperial support.
Hezbollah are enemy combatants. These were ordered by and for Hezbollah. Israel isn’t targeting non-combatants.
They verified that all of the devices were in the possession of Hezbollah before they detonated them?
Is what why their pager terrorism killed a child and caused 2000+ injuries, including dismemberment of other children?
Now they just repeated it, I’m sure with the same disregard for living people they have already shown.
What do you think about Hezbollah reopening the hostilities back in October? Do you believe they could have prevented all this bloodshed if they just kept the border in peace?
What do you think about Israel never ceasing hostilities?
For real, read a book every once in awhile.
But Israel did cease hostilities, right untill Hezbollah started them again…
No they didn’t. They very specifically never stopped actions in countries they aren’t at war with and notably as the article states THEY WERE PLANTING BOMBS IN CIVILIAN ITEMS again in countries they aren’t at war with.
These bomb-planting shenanigans only began after Hezbollah restarted the hostilities
Also, why do you consider devices used for military communications as civilian items (in all caps no less)
Ah, yes. History started in '22.
You sound like you’re ready to shoot every ‘zio’ they put in front of you, no questions asked
Holy whataboutism Batman.
It’s whataboutism to say someone shouldn’t have started the fight in the first place?
The “fight” started with the colonization of Palestine, the theft of indigenous land, and the expulsion of half the native populace. Naming a random date or event in the past couple of years as the “start” of this conflict is brazenly dishonest.
Every year, Israel expands its land seizures in occupied Palestine, but for some reason you don’t count that as sustaining hostilities. Sounds an awful lot like you’re willing to excuse Israeli terrorism while holding others to a different standard.
Would you say that because of your personal understanding of the history, you’d consider any act of Hezbollah against Israel as justified, and any act of Israel to stop them as unjustified?
You are defending the murder of children.
I’m condemning starting a war in which children are going to die
Israel started the fight in 1982. Hezbollah was formed in response.
Ok, so in your mind, the year is 1982. Israel just invaded Southern Lebanon and is fighting the PLO. Nothing like Israel withdrawing, the entire Lebanese civil war, the '90s, the 2006 war, the events of 2023 has happened. 1982 Hezbollah received some missiles from the future and fired them at some Israelis that haven’t been born yet.
It is forever 1982, and the killing will never end
Peace was never part of the plan for colonial genocide. Have you ever seen the zio genocide map? They’re planning on invading every neighboring state, stealing the land, and continuing with genocide.
Why steal just one state when you can steal the whole region? It’s what god wants his chosen people to do. smh.
Wow that’s really interesting!
Can you share some more info on Israel’s plan to conquer half the Middle East? This sounds very realistic now that you’ve mentioned it
Israel isn’t targeting non-combatants
How many thousands of children have been slaughtered by Israeli troops?
If you want to be pedantic, and you’re talking only about this specific attack, children were killed in these pager/walkie-talkie blasts too. Are they enemy combatants to you?
Don’t be a genocide apologist.
Doesn’t really matter if they weren’t targeted if they still ended up dead.
So, like, are Israeli reservists fair game for terror attacks?
But if they are active duty and have military comms, it’s just called an “attack”, not a “terror attack”, even if the attackers are otherwise terrorists.
And your evidence that Israel only targetted active duty Hezbollah combattants?
You know you can just not type right? These thoughts that just stream into your head, they don’t need to be shared. You can also read sources and understand that “military comms” can’t accurately be targeted by this attack because of the very nature of radio. Nobody is logging into a badguy frequency and being targeted and identified. Thats not how any of this could possibly work.
You should take your own advice
Israel put bombs in pagers and radios and secretly sold them to Hezbollah. The only people who therefore would have had them were people Hezbollah gave them to to coordinate with. You can’t really get more targeted than that. There’s not some magic Jewish radio waves blowing up civilian radios lol.
Except that these pagers were distributed to more than just hezbollah. AUB (American university of Beirut) medical workers had them too, for example.
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So Israel planted explosives in known communication devices, that could easily be tracked or also had pinpoint tracking technology included with the explosive, then deliberately waited until the intended targets could cause collateral damage to unarmed civilians to set them off? And you argue this is different from terrorism in what way?
Israel put bombs in pagers and radios and secretly sold them to Hezbollah. The only people who therefore would have had them were people Hezbollah
According to you. The cowards responsible haven’t admitted anything.
But in reality they killed kids and many other innocent people as is usual for these genocidal terrorists.
Just anyone in an airplane or bus or subway with them
Hezbollah is a political party as well as a paramilitary group. What if Canada did this to The Oath Keepers or CSPOA or The Proud Boys or another group in the US? They’re all objectively bad people, buy only a few have committed terrorist attacks. Do they all and the people who happen to be around them deserve to die by a foreign government’s actions?
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Not the point. They’re a paramilitary terrorist organisation that has been denounced by Canada in the past.
But OK then Mexico or China, they preach the destruction of Mexico and China pretty often. And many of their terror attacks have been against people of Mexican and Asian descent. But again, not the point.
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Google it. These groups were attacking Asians (not even Chinese because they don’t know the difference) during COVID because Trump said they were responsible for it and/or made it up to allow the government to inject microchips and/or transgender inducing substances and all the other conspiracies. And these groups are highly anti-immigrant and are constantly attacking people they consider “Mexican” and supported calls by Trump and far-right pundits to bomb Mexico to reduce immigration and cartel crime. But again this is off subject as this is an example of what a similar attack on the a US extremist group by a foreign country would be like.
These are extremist paramilitary groups just like Hezbollah. But they still don’t deserve to have their families killed by bombs put in their products by foreign governments.
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Call it for what it is, a terrorist attack.
The media condemned political violence against Trump in unison one month ago.
Israel commits one of the biggest terrorist attacks against a Lebanese political organization in history and the media claps.
My concern twofold
A: Without evidence I have a hard time seeing planting bombs in devices was solely targeted at fighters. Odds are an entire shipment was targeted and many people who weren’t Hezbollah received bombs
B: Blowing up devices that were by definition carried everywhere certainly killed families and associates who didn’t deserve to die.
During the Iraqi war we considered Iraqi leadership targets and I wouldn’t have been surprised if they considered our leadership targets as well. If they had in fact only killed Hezbollah I would have no problem with the attack.
In Iraq every Iraqi civilian was considered a valid target.
The definition of “enemy combatant” was “anyone within the blast radius of a US strike”. I kid you not.
They were probably mostly in the hands of Hezbollah members, if not fighters. This is probably why they went off in hospitals as well. Lots of medics who volunteer who’s normal job is being a doctor in a Beirut hospital. Lots of logistics and people hiding weapons in the back of buildings for them.
They’re not full time militants if I understand correctly. Most of these people will have civilian lives and jobs to go to.
Certainly some innocent family members died. There’s no such thing as a completely surgical strike. It is better than what they’ve been doing in Gaza though, by several orders of magnitude. I don’t think anybody can defend what’s been going on there with a straight face.
Maybe so but commit a little genocide here and there and suddenly nobody wants to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And they whined about a fucking bus exploding.
About some pipe rockets killing a random bloke or two.
And this
against a Lebanese political organization
appears to be wrong since their attack wasn’t at all this targeted. It’s a mass terror campaign against whole Lebanese population in order to saturate its attention and reduce morale before an invasion.
We all got complacent relying on big nations with big militaries for punishing such behavior, and they are all in bed with the criminal.
Despite this not being Hezbollah’s best moment, I think they and similar guerrillas are the exact kind of people we should learn from for solutions to Israel and the rest of the problem.
Lotta Hezbollah flags in that crowd, was that some kind of funeral procession from yesterday’s pagers?
Yes, a funeral procession for 4 members.
Exponential funeral growth.
If your state was under attack by genocidal terrorists, wouldn’t you support the resistance?
This is a super-villain plan becoming a reality.
If this carries on, we’ll have exploding semaphore flags by the end of the week.
Don’t mess with Americas boats
Shit, we use the same radios at work. Hope no-one blew up.
I saw this on Reddit first while I was checking my city subreddit, damn the headline there definitely gives a different impression.
(The comments are all mostly jokes, didn’t even bother wading through them and came to see If Lemmy had a thread instead).
R/worldnews? It’s completely run by zionists. Anything critical or Israel or pro Palestinian gets instantly nuked
At this point, r/worldnews comments are so thoroughly astroturfed by so many global powers, their only use is to get an idea of what various propaganda machines think.
Someone tell them the Palm Pilots aren’t safe either
Samsung Galaxy note 7
Might have to break out my Newton as a precautionary measure.
Whatever you do, don’t use the stylus! /s
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs. But they have not been able to gather enough intelligence from control of those communication devices to find and rescue the remaining hostages? And if they weren’t able to catch useful information from those devices, why did the people holding those devices deserve to get blown up?
Hezbollah operates out of Lebanon, and the hostages are in Gaza? They have nothing to do with each other…
Thanks. I honestly haven’t been following it all closely. (I guess that’s obvious from my last comment). But why blow up a bunch of people in Lebanon?
This might help to clarify.
Because tensions between Hezbollah and Israel have been steadily rising since October 7th because of Hzebollah’s objection to how Israel is acting in Gaza. To be clear, prior to October 7th, tensions were already high enough that they would regularly lob bombs at each other. Today’s “escalated” tensions include northern Israel being evacuated due to threats from Hezbolla’s rocket attacks.
At this point, it is clear that the options available to Israel are to either withdraw from Gaza and hope Hezbolla stands down, or end up in a full war with Hezbolla. Historians will say that the war with Hezbolla started months ago, and this was just one attack among many.
You are forgetting one simple fact. They don’t care about the hostages.
Oh, they definitely do, in their own way.
The hostages are in Gaza, not Lebanon. If Israel had this level of infiltration with Hamas, it is unlikely this would’ve started in the first place
If only the nazis had infiltrated the warsaw ghetto… \s \s \s
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs.
Think about it like, there’s one person who was able to tell the perpetrators of this that a big order of communication devices is being made.
Perpetrators are clearly sophisticated so it’s fair to assume they can throw some skilled team at it.
This attack could be years in the making.
From a spy craft and capabilities standpoint it’s an amazing attack. I’m skeptical that using the devices as bombs is more useful than using them for spying, but who knows? It is super fucked up that random people who happen to be near the targets could be hurt. But between that and the stuxnet attack, it’s safe to say that Israel is capable of crazy sophisticated attacks.
Except they barely knew what they were doing with stuxnet too.
I heard 5 months, forgot where from.
Booby-trapped walkie-talkies and pagers.
This reminds me of when during sieges during the Middle Ages they used to lob the bodies of the dead back inside the castle. I’m not sure if it’s because of the lines they’ve crossed over and ignored regarding civilian casualties on this, or that this will essentially cause other parties to cross those same lines. This is giving ideas to China and Russia, and humanity has been far shittier in the past, I really don’t want to see how bad we will regress to.
